What Happens When You Die?

Whitelight, I have been poking around among older posts, and found yours in which you give your True Story For Halloween - your grandfather's encounter with demonic possession when he was young.

If you have further details I'd very much like to hear them; especially the circumstances leading to the possession, and the aftermath of the exorcism - presumably a successful exorcism?

It is my understanding that a full exorcism, as practiced by the Catholic church, requires a lengthy process of investigation and official approval from the hierarchy before it can be undertaken; or so it is at the present time.
Was this an impromptu ceremony, performed on the spot by the priest, who was not prepared for it specifically when he arrived at the home?

I understand that these details may not be known, all these years later, but I am detail-oriented when it comes to matters which interest me greatly - and this subject does.

We seem to live increasingly in a society which rejects the concept of "evil," and that embraces the doctrine of relativism. It rejects the existence of evil as a spiritual force; most especially the idea that "evil" has a will...a will which it directs at mankind, both collectively and individually.

For my part, I do not.
The human idea of evil is muddied by our inability to see clearly, by our spiritual weaknesses, and even by our all too selfish desires.
We fail to see, most often I think, because we are afraid to see, and fear the cost of the knowledge seeing might bring to us.
If we see evil in the world, we run the risk of seeing some shadow of it within our own selves.

To quote the cliche, "ignorance is bliss."

Hi Fred, 
Well, it IS a true story, at least according to my grandfather. He has since passed away. I agree there is a very lengthy process before an exorcism can take place. This would have occurred I am guessing in the 1920s. I am not sure if the investigation was conducted in the same way back in those days. My grandfather talked about it like he was unaware what he was about to do, so I am not sure how much the priest actually knew. He never talked about a team of people helping, but he lived close to the Canadian border in farm country so perhaps there was no one else around to help. Not sure.
That I am aware of she survived the exorcism, but barely. If I am remembering this story correctly then she was able to return to mass with her family. I had the impression she was a young woman, maybe even unmarried at that time.

Sorry I cannot give you more. This story was told to me a very, long time ago.

I also believe there IS evil in the world. I know not everyone believes this is true-
I recently read something about how we have forgotten to think with our hearts. Instead we only think with our minds. According to Aristotle- the truest knowledge was not obtained from mere speculative knowledge (brain knowledge), but from something called the intellect - located in the heart. Thinking with only the brain - not with the heart leaves us un-illuminated. "Heart knowledge is the direct perception of the intelligible light - the Light of the Word: (Rene Guenon- french philosopher)    I think that when people think with their heart & their head (brain) they are able to come to understand these truths. Just my thoughts.

I agree with you both there IS evil in this world.
And it is out there.
I have been lucky enough to not per say see the Evil that lurks in the spirit realm. But  Grandpa, my son and hubby are perceptive to both Evil and Good Spirits.  Sometimes they see a spirit and just from the Aura I guess or the Energy that surrounds it and the Feelings that they get from it.. they know that it is Evil or not.
 
I am glad that she was able to go back to mass and the church but you are both right it does take a lot of red tape and time to get an excorcism done. I have to agree and it is a shame. As if there is a really big problem out there with someone like this they need help as soon as possble.
I guess I see more with my heart then with my mind sometimes.  I feel sorry for the spirits that are beyond and in a realm that they want to leave but maybe can't and feel for the spirits that feel trapped. I feel sorry for the spirits that have passed on that may have turned Evil on the other side for whatever reasons. Maybe that was not their hopeful destiny. I don't know.
But, my heart goes out to those spirits.
I know there are spirits that just want to linger and be left alone and I am happy for them.
And let them be.
As long as they don't become a bother to the household.
But I like many people these days don't beleive there is Evil out there ..

Whitelight, thanks for your reply.

The priests of that modern god "science" do not declare the existence of spirit in any form, but I agree that anyone willing to listen to their own heart can discern that there is something more to reality than what mere science declares.

Humanity has lost much, I think, in our quest for knowledge. We drive relentlessly forward and gain knowledge of a certain kind, at the cost of understanding.

It's unfortunate more details are not known regarding the background of the young woman; more than anything else I'd like to know how it is that she came to be possessed, so owned and controlled, by an evil spirit [or spirits; Christ ejected a legion of unclean spirits from the tormented Gadarene man who dwelt among the tombs ].

Every time I hear an account of this sort, the first questions which spring to mind regard the origin of the matter.

Hi Fred, 
This is an interesting question. What do people have to do- or NOT do in order to be possessed??? I have some thoughts on this, but would like to open it up for forum discussion.
Anyone out there with the answers???

Lynne, I agree with "feeling" whether spirits are "good" or "bad". I seem to be able to detect this as well, but how do you prove anything? You cannot. Whenever I have felt a "bad" spirit (which has only been a few times thankfully)- the energy feels oppressive- dark, nasty, ill-mannered and corrupt. The air is thick, like quicksand and EVERY cell in my body wants to escape from the area/home, etc.  I do not have any other way to explain this feeling other than to declare that the spirit/entity is evil somehow.

I guess that is how they feel Whitelight.
I am not sure I have not felt it myself..
I am not that gifted to feel it and not sure I want to be really. But like you it has not been that many times in their lifetime they have come across really bad or evil entities or spirits.
 
But you are right in those senses.
 
SpiritQuest you are right...anyone willing to listen to their own heart can discern that there is something more to reality than what mere science declares.
Humanity has lost much, I think, in our quest for knowledge. We drive relentlessly forward and gain knowledge of a certain kind, at the cost of understanding.

I agree with that completely.. well put...

Whitelight.. I don't have any answers on WHY we become possessed. I guess it is the weakest link that becomes possessed? Someone who is unsure, of themselves. Maybe a self esteem issue, that has been playing with things they shouldn't have: ouija board, EVP's too many of them?? in their own home without others around?? These are just guesses.. someone who is weak in my opinion, of something in their own soul.. so the spirit or entity sees this and feels it from them and decides well I can take them over and live on my life as I did before??
I don't know these are just things I have seen from documentaries anyways.. I could be totally off!
Who knows..

Here's a really scary part of the equation. A demon cannot do anything without the permission of God. If you read to story of Job, Satan couldn't do anything to him without God saying o.k., you're on, you won't be able to make him question me. So it's possible that these things are being allowed for a higher purpose, and what we do about the situation doesn't make one bit of difference. It's what we learn about our own spirituality and belief systems that matters in the end.

Really Kaspr?? That is really fascinating information I never knew that... I mean it makes sense.
Thanks for sharing that information. I never knew that ...you are quite enlightening :)

Kaspr, it's true that Satan required the permission of God before he could launch a series of attacks upon Job.
Believers are often called upon to have faith in God.
In the old testament, we see that God had faith in the loyalty of Job.

Job was never possessed; we do not know what might have become of him had he succumbed to the great pressure exerted upon him by Satan.

It's interesting that Satan would under engage in this at all; God himself endorses Job, declaring that "there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil"
Satan, in his boundless arrogance, is eager to challenge God himself, and in effect declare the Creator to be either a liar or deluded regarding this little creature known as man.

It's also interesting to note that when God questions Satan regarding where he has been, Satan replies "...roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

In the new testament, we read "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.." [ 1 Peter 5:8 ]

Popular conception regarding the Devil is that he is in Hell -  Dante portrayed him as such in his "Inferno," locked in ice in the lowest part of the Abyss - but scripture states otherwise.

The Bible says the Satan, and by extension his fellow rebel angels, are loose in the world, ruling over world-systems, causing what havoc they may, and eating-up whatever prey they can find.

Consumed, swallowed whole, eaten alive - is there a better image of the torments experienced by those possessed by devils?

The idea that satan is in hell is probably the most common misconception about him, is quite right. In fact, he left one of his minions to "keep the "throne" warm" until the end of time when he will return to "rule". At the soulsmack interviews we had quite the conversation about the concept that an entity can't do a thing without God's permission, and the fact that the church has such a problem with dealing with the more negative aspects of the metaphysical in public. It seems that politically, they don't want to acknowledge the fact that while they portray God as a sentient, all loving being as described in the New Testament, in fact, the Old Testament portrays a rather vengeful God. One who will do anything within His power to remind us who really is in charge.

As I understand it- Job is one of the most difficult books to figure out. Great scholars had a hard time with this one. Lots of different translations- no clear cut moral answers, yet I think its more a story about life. Its complicated, sometimes there are no answers, and sometimes bad things happen to really good people. I think it is more of an example of how we are supposed to act in times of trial. Do we just abandon our beliefs because things get a bit nasty, or do we plod along hoping for a brighter future? In the end, we know what Job did, and God restored everything Job had lost, and then some. Supposedly, he lived to 100 years + and died a happy righteous man.

I think the Old Testament is tough. Thankfully, we have the New Testament, and I think Jesus corrected all the old thinking of God as being a harda--. 

Interesting posts.

I have found between the old and new testament what I have read of the Bible.. we seem to just keep doing the same mistakes and never learn over and over again.. why is that?
I mean it is written right in the Bible in the old and new testaments and it just seems to me that some of the happenings in the Old testament and in the new testaments are just alike, done by different people, but just alike and then I think wow we are still to this day still doing this stuff.. will we ever learn?